Thank you. I agree.
Although I have a rather broad definition of mindfulness.
Not just the part that observes passively.

But a tool to actively use to calm and "destroy" the chatter and clutter to come to deeper levels of understanding in with regard to:
form (breath and body)
Feelings
mental states
and consciousness.

All 4 have their perks that at times demand attention like small children.
Although there is nothing wrong with that if we as adults want to get anything done we need a way to pacify the youngsters so we have a little time to ourselves.

Talking about loving-kind pacifying here. so giving some time to the needy child so it feels acknowledged. Give it a task it feel empowered by and turn our attention at the task at hand.

So for the form, connect to the whole body, see which parts feel comfy, which parts don't take some time to relax the tense parts. If there's a part that won't relax. finally decide to ignore it for a little while as you go about exploring the body and parts that will empower you.

Same for feelings. see them all. give them attention and then nourish yourself in the ones you need. tend to the ones that are painful and ignore the ones you just cannot handle at the moment. They will be their when we have grown a bit stronger..

Mental states.. See them. play with them. choose which ones are helpful and which aren't. Listen to them all, then rise above them and choose which thoughts are worth your time, which need to grow up a little and which you just won't have anymore.

And yes consciousness too.
As our state of consciousness is in my mind a fabrication also. we can choose to have it become clearer and clearer as we go along. As we play with it. and as we choose wisely.

With Love
Eelco

One overlooked system of the mind i keep forgetting is that i observing an experience, or even participating i an experience.
I have already brought many subtle expectations, pre-concieved notions and memories to compare this experience to.

I wonder if we can get to a point in life where we can become so mindful/conscious that we can identify all these little overlays we tack on to an experience. I see many misconception emerge from these tacks/ticks? On the other hand they are what define us as personalities as they bring a sense of continuity to the equation.

Maybe we can/need to somehow manipulate these tacks/ticks so we can bring the fabricated personality we want to the experience.
Just so long until we see through all of it and can experience each experience totally free from any past comparison

With Love
Eelco

Phil wrote:Consciousness is what reality is...if we're not just some solipsists' dream

I tend to think of us as individual sensors, each a part of "All That Is" with the purpose of discovering "our/It"-self the only way we can...through experience

I mean: what else is there?

Solipsism (Listeni/ˈsɒlᵻpsɪzəm/; from Latin solus, meaning "alone", and ipse, meaning "self")[1] is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside of the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist.

I don't think other minds do not exist, I am keen to think I cannot know anything about them with any kind of certainty.
The best I can hope for. Is that what I experience must be equivalent to what the other is experiencing.
If I can experience a sense of peace and joy. So can the other.
If I can know something to be truth so can another.

With this in mind what become skillful actions with regard to consciousness.
Do I need to prove my truth on order to "overcome" yours?
What value's are important with regard to consciousness.
Which criteria do I use when I decide this truth is universally applicable for anyone who has some sentient consciousness.

Here's where The Buddha comes in.
Seeing all the " mistakes" I've made with regard to my idea's regarding TRUTH.
Here's a human being that through his own efforts found a consciousness state that is regarded as being totally free from any conditioned cause.
Upon finding this unconditioned state he realized every other consciousness is conditioned in it's awareness. Therefore it is also bound to that condition and will ultimately suffer a loss as the condition changes. (He notices conditions will inevitably change at some point)

He then proceeded to carve a path through the conditioned states of consciousness to the unconditioned. To total freedom.
The Path he carved has been walked for over 2600 years. The Path is scrutinized and ridiculed during that time, but through the millenia people have accounted that following the path leads to the promised liberation from conditioned consciousness.

During these 2600 years also the teachings have given rise to a view of consciousness that seems universally applicable and provable for anyone who takes it to the test. They deal with what one can know through their own senses. Their own perceptions and their own thoughts and conclusions.
I see the dangers there as those criteria are equally true for any belief system. So the question again arises what value's do we express to give rise to our beliefs/truths

WIth Love
Eelco

Questions..

Are we consciousness? Or does consciousness happen to us?
Is it just one of the "tools" we have?
Can we create what we are conscious off?

Ian Xel lungold once said "that what we turn our attention to is what we become conscious of"

With Love
Eelco

Bishop Barkley had a really interesting take on this. In it's simplest, "To be is to be perceived."

Which opens up the can of worms, what happens when we're not perceiving something? Does the chair disappear!?

I return with a greater understanding to that quote which ends with, "I AM who I AM". If I were to approach this on a quantum level (and I'm not one to speak about quantum levels just to be honest here...) on some levels we are consciousness, and on some levels to be is to BE conceived. On some levels consciousness happens to us, and on other levels not so much. If I were an ant, I would have some kind of consciousness but it wouldn't be to the same degree as a human beings. Which is not to say that the quality or quantity of consciousness isn't the same (I have no idea of knowing! ) but as I would think as an ant there would be a limit to what I would be conscious of, namely ant-ness. I often wonder if the struggle most epistemologists confront is the question of soul, or if we are more than just our brains? If, as John Searle believes, consciousness is just a byproduct of brain function in the same way that the pulse is a byproduct of heart function, what does that say about us in connection with the universe? On the one hand, it might be discouraging to theists and those of faith, but on the other hand it would connect us at an even greater level to our immediate surroundings because every being with a brain, every being with an ability to think shares this 'function' and as such, we would have an even greater responsibility to care for our environment.

Can we create what we are conscious of?

To some degree. What I know is this: even though there might be problems, I tend to think Barkley was on to something.

Your milage may vary.

Or to put it another way....

Dobito ergo sum. I doubt, therefore, I exist.

(Love St. Augustine)

Hermit wrote:Bishop Barkley had a really interesting take on this. In it's simplest, "To be is to be perceived."

Which opens up the can of worms, what happens when we're not perceiving something? Does the chair disappear!?

Lol my Father once wrote something similar to me when I was a child.

" You don't need the world to see, The world needs you to be perceived."

Anyway wasn't his answer to the chair problem that God sees all?
To be conscious is to perceive that which we want to be conscious of or are conscious of.
So perception is a function of consciousness perhaps?

I doubt to be perceived is a prerequisite for being, But I doubt I'll come up with the proper philosophical arguments to either accept or refute that premise.

WIth Love
Eelco

As St. Augustine said...to doubt is to exist.

The synchronicity of what is being share on EE is truly astonishing. Something very deep and unifying is happening. Can you see it in the posts? It feels as though we are all swimming in the same sea of consciousness ... I just had to say this!

I think I am.. therefore I am..

♥E

Hermit wrote:As St. Augustine said...to doubt is to exist.

I just hope existence isn't dependant on it.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/6bp0sd2sRyc[/youtube]

WIth Love
Eelco