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Re: If I may interject...

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:02 pm
by Hermit
Not sure if this is the proper place for this or not, so if it doesn't fit here I'm going to trust the mods to move it. :)

Much of this comes back to the idea of our existence being that which is within a matrix, a creation which we were placed within that in some way is run or managed by a force, and possibly micro-managed at greater and greater levels within that matrix. We're returning to the idea of the universe being a very complicated computer simulation of which we are a part, that our minds are somehow connected to it. I want to look at a couple of things about this theory that I think are significantly crucial to understanding the validity of the theory. I'll probably do it in a couple of posts so there's not anything huge and hard to read. Bite size. :D

The first thing that needs to be determined in defining this computer simulation is to ascertain if the simulation is open or closed. What I mean is that if the simulation is open, beings can pass in and out of it (namely, a mind, or a physical/energy being) as opposed to a simulation in which beings have been placed in the system and it has been closed, or the simulation is actually open so that outside beings can interact with beings within the system, and vice versa.

This is important to ascertain because if it's a closed system in which we are enclosed as physical/energy beings, there's nothing we can do to exit the system or it's program. Which means, anything that comes up (including discovering that we are in the system and it's actually a simulation) have contingencies, or are part of the program. Every behavior, idea, action, reaction is covered by the program and we basically have no free will. This means that the alt community is as much a slave of the program as the non-alt community. You might think you're breaking free (think the movie "The Matrix") but in reality, you're simply participating in a subset program which fools you into thinking you're in control, or really aware, when in reality you're not, and you can never be. The other down side to a closed system is that the rules are written and they can't be broken from inside or outside the system. The only thing that can change the rules would be to destroy the system completely and start again, re-writing the rules. Which isn't very practical unless it's a computer program: in which case, you dear reader are nothing but a collection of rules that act and react according to the system, and you have no real significant meaning except as a "bit" of information. Pretty depressing huh?

Or it could be a system/simulation that is open in which case, there's a chance that you're more than just a bit of information. An open system has the advantage of being able to escape, to be able to comprehend other dimensions, other beings. It has the advantage of being able to awaken, realize a greater potential, and a chance to make differences or take control.

The problem is there's no way we can know if it's truly an open or closed system because a closed system would have programming in place to create the idea of an open system. Occam's razor would then apply: a closed system is in fact the more reasonable conclusion.

So if you want to go with the idea of a computer simulated reality, you have to concede there is at least the possibility that there is absolutely no free will, that you have no real choices, that your choices are actually simply subsets of an existing program, that those choices will be reflected and replayed generation after generation until the simulation ceases to exist. We can have no real knowledge of anything that exists outside of the simulation because knowledge, consciousness, is merely a result of a program. We can't even really know with any certainty that we know the program completely.

In effect, if you concede the idea of a matrix type reality? You have to also concede that what is possible to actually know is very limited.

I'm not so convinced it's a closed system though. I'm also not convinced it's a computer simulation. I'm more likely to believe that the de jour theory of existence is simply a rehash of long-held beliefs seen through a lens of materialism. The last video where we are asked to see tree stumps and mining in natural landscapes is a really good example of what I'm trying to say above: you can, if you want to, see anything you want anywhere you want if you don't permit yourself the common sense and thoughtful approach to problems we all have.

Unless, you choose to believe this is a simulation: in which case, nothing you do or think is your own, or in your control. And thinking otherwise is simply a subset of a program you're a part of.

More coming.

Re: There are no forests on Flat Earth - Wake Up

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:46 pm
by modwiz
Max Igan mentions this video in his latest show. Like a lot of us, it struck a chord. Also like a lot of us, he is in the stage on allowing himself to consider it as a possibility. If anyone is familiar with the Expanding Earth theory that Clif High has spoken intelligently about, then a new explanation for certain mountain ranges certainly fills in a gap. Without subduction and continents crashing into each other, events that would be absent in an expanding Earth model, this new video offers playful ideas.

Re: There are no forests on Flat Earth - Wake Up

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:12 am
by Eelco
2. The preprint of a recent overview paper by Schmidhuber includes pseudocode (a simplified generic version) for the ten lines of code mentioned in the talk (see also slides):

FAST Algorithm
for i := 1, 2, . . . do
Run each program p with l(p) ≤ i for at most 2i−l(p) steps and reset storage modified by p
end for

[here l(p) denotes the length of program p, a bitstring]

Schmidhuber explains: “This is essentially a variant of Leonid Levin’s universal search (1973), but without the search aspect. The code systematically lists and runs all possible programs in interleaving fashion. It can be shown that it computes each particular universe as quickly as this universe’s (typically unknown) fastest program, save for a constant factor that does not depend on the universe size.

Image

For anyone interested. The work of Juergen Schmidhuber deals with exactly the question of AI and coded universes.
this is a nice startingpoint..http://www.kurzweilai.net/in-the-beginning-was-the-code

WIth Love
Eelco

Re: There are no forests on Flat Earth - Wake Up

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:25 am
by Eelco
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Ogwa76yQo[/youtube]

Here's his ted-talk.

I'm not sure if this should continue in this thread or if it deserves a thread of it's own.
I haven't seen the op video. I doubt i'll find the time soon. That said. Going of of Hermit's post here on the probability of a computed universe and what Schmidhuber has to say about it. There's a few implications I'd like to share.

First if God is a programmer and has indeed used Schmidhuber's fast algorithm to run this universe everyone could feel secure in the knowledge that his or her life is needed to describe this universe in any optimal way. Without you here It would be very much harder to describe and run thisprogram Universe without you.

When I thought about what Schmidhuber said though seeking the optimal path in a logical sense I was reminded of the way Paul's son in the Dune series became a god-emperor in search of a new genome that was invisible to his fore-knowledge. In order to steer the Dune universe in a new unpredictable way.

The crux here is the fact that we've succumbed into the logic side of things where almost everyone can sense it's in the creative unreliable and randomness of choices that we may adhere to..

WIth Love
Eelco

Re: There are no forests on Flat Earth - Wake Up

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:31 pm
by modwiz
Is it just me or does there seem to be a separate conversation from the OP going on here? Is this the "hot" thread to post in?

Re: There are no forests on Flat Earth - Wake Up

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:57 pm
by Eelco
Not sure about the 'hot' part of the thread.
I was going with Hermit's post about the possible matrix like structure of our experience.

If it needs a separate thread I'm all for it.
Although in my experience I get the best insights from combining seemingly unrelated topics of conversation.

If I got the gist of the op video right. It deals with the fact that somehow our earth has been flattened if you wil.
Where our mountains are actual old petrified wood trees.

The matrix like "reality" we are left with is what i.m.o spurred Hermit to question whether such a matrix would be an open or closed program to get a hang on the probability of such a system. To which I posted the work of an AI programmer to explore the simplicity of such a system in a closed or even seemingly open universe depending on it's operation system. (the few lines of pseudo code that i posted)

All in all as it is proven to be way simpler to build a new "reality" with everything already in place. It makes sense that what we are left with is in part what used to be there before.. As changing code is expensive..

With Love
Eelco

Re: There are no forests on Flat Earth - Wake Up

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:52 am
by Eelco
Not wanting to flood this topic too much with off-topic posts.
Here's an on-topic one I hope.

One of the proofs in the op-video was the hexagonal shapes right?
So take a look at this.
I especially like the Saturn connexion.

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/10/ar ... 00381.html

ALso keeping in mind that this universe is possibly run by a program. It does make sense that some laws remain. The laws of breaklines/pressure lines for instance to construct shapes. ALso how about an evolution/upgrade towards carbon based live. Would on the basis that change is expensive try to incorporate structural integrity based on what was already in the program/design. Hexagons to build up inorganic matter is just smart design. It makes sense that at some basic level. say the inside of a wooden tree structure there would be a honeycomb structure. either from the beginning or due to pressure stress like the cooling of lava into columnar basalt. the forces that make water freeze into hexagonal snowflakes?

With Love
Eelco

Re: There are no forests on Flat Earth - Wake Up

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:41 pm
by Christine
Image

The impact I felt when viewing this real life image is that it is a stunning rendering of our reality, it captures the angles and reflection, the sky and the inversion. I haven't come across a photo that so draws out of me the multiplicity and yet astounding simplicity of our world.

How do we so continuously miss the reverence that is needed when we view the shifting tides of nature in all her grandeur and beauty?

We the viewer are the co-creator and there is no right or wrong angles in which we view, that is the core of our divinity.

Pondering wonder.

Re: There are no forests on Flat Earth - Wake Up

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:50 pm
by Cristian
hmm, maybe RSS doesent like pictures ?:(

MinXie

Re: There are no forests on Flat Earth - Wake Up

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:04 pm
by Christine
This is Minxie!

* A little note, way off topic but we are working on the website including an RSS feed from the forum. Also if anyone wants to submit an article to post please, please do.

And there is much to be pondered here, the nature of reality being a virtual nature doesn't make life any less wondrous.

Image
Cristian wrote:hmm, maybe RSS doesent like pictures ?:(

MinXie