Seems that pieces of puzzles eventually float to the surface. Here is another piece that is quite interesting in its expose' of Jewery and the deviousness of how the controls are put into place, how the criminality is covered up.

https://youtu.be/zVWb-_AEMF4

That is the first I have heard that Patton was asassinated and the Jewery factor is so blatantly depicted as the culprits by those who have or are members of a military faction of sorts....WOW ??

Before some questions, I just want to reiterate that I still don't buy that Germany was the good guy, OR the bad guy. I think they were the fall guy.

So having reasserted that, I'm having a bit of trouble making some things add up here. I always reserve the right to disagree with myself and my indoctrination, but it has to make some good sound sense.

If the Reich was indeed the knight in shining armor (the good guys), why were they being funded, at least early on, by American and British banks (the bad guys)? Why would the bad guys fund the good guys?

Is it just a cruel made up meme that pre war Germany was fully funded and used as an incubator for a certain segment of American eugenics ideals? I've always had it that there were certain lengths that the then blossoming eugenics movement in the States couldn't legally go to, on a larger scale anyway, so they took a good deal of their money and ideas to Germany to see what may blossom. Am I to now assume that Josef Mengela, was actually just an affable country doctor as a for instance? Is it all really *that* bass ackwards?

I'm also having a tough time with "Paperclip" as well. Did all of those noble doctors and scientists from the defeated Reich, come over to help the bad guys not only understand their advanced technology so they could become even more powerful, but to help get the MK ULTRA type of mind fuck programs going as well? That doesn't make sense to me, wouldn't a number of them have committed suicide, rather than defile themselves, their professions, and their country in such a manner?

There's more, but I think you get the point. If these have satisfactory explanations, perhaps the rest will begin falling into place as well.

Fred Steeves wrote:Before some questions, I just want to reiterate that I still don't buy that Germany was the good guy, OR the bad guy. I think they were the fall guy.

I would say the same Fred, and the “fall guy” is a good descriptor. However it depends on how one defines the terms good and bad. What is clear to me is that Germany or we could more correctly say the German people with Adolf Hitler as their Führer were again thriving as a Nation, he was loved by the people not because he wanted to conquer the world but because he brought back ethics, fair work and restored prosperity to them. So in those terms we can think of this as good. If one determines that there is an international ruling elite whose sole interest is money and the cost to the people makes no difference including steering the world to war we could say that is bad. Is this not our current state of affairs that the victors have instituted?

Fred Steeves wrote:So having reasserted that, I'm having a bit of trouble making some things add up here. I always reserve the right to disagree with myself and my indoctrination, but it has to make some good sound sense.

Understood and thank you for some good questions, they are ones I have looked to answer for myself.

Fred Steeves wrote:If the Reich was indeed the knight in shining armor (the good guys), why were they being funded, at least early on, by American and British banks (the bad guys)? Why would the bad guys fund the good guys?

There are several possibilities here, number one being that the “International Banking Cartel” had so thoroughly demolished Germany’s economy at the end of WWI that the only choice open was to initially accept the loans of money offered. This pattern is ongoing today, destroy a country in the name of Democracy then tie them to the debt system with a strangle hold on the resources of the country, including natural resources and human resources (labor).

Secondarily it is important to remember that what we can call the sociopathic leaders don’t see in terms of good guys and bad guys, their view of the world is what can we get and how can we obtain our goals, ie: control and power. Assuming that after WWI “they” were gleeful that Germany was coming into the control fold. In this i feel that there is a need to comprehend the pleasure derived from enslaving and killing people these empty vessels need to sustain themselves. As empathic human beings we can't really fully take this in, it doesn't and will never make sense however it can be understood by reading their own doctrines and thesis.

Fred Steeves wrote:Is it just a cruel made up meme that pre war Germany was fully funded and used as an incubator for a certain segment of American eugenics ideals? I've always had it that there were certain lengths that the then blossoming eugenics movement in the States couldn't legally go to, on a larger scale anyway, so they took a good deal of their money and ideas to Germany to see what may blossom. Am I to now assume that Josef Mengela, was actually just an affable country doctor as a for instance? Is it all really *that* bass ackwards?

I personally wouldn’t make the assumption that Germany was used as an incubator for “American Eugenics” … and legal or not the eugenics programs were covertly being carried out, even within the US on certain segments of people such as the Blacks. We now have a lengthy and somewhat through ability to review the historical documentation of the eugenics ideologies along with the growing evidence that “controllers” have long term plans in operation, while we may only see the short term of one generation they are multi generational in the manners in which they implement programs.

As far as Josef Mengele goes many alternate testimonies have surfaced as to whether he was indeed "The Angel of Death". There is the point to be made too that while he may have engaged in experiments that our current mind revolts at he wasn’t alone and I would guess that there were far worse than him practicing some really horrid experiments … again the fall guy? Divert the world’s attention to one man and continue to experiment with impunity and unseen.

Most likely there will always be gaps in what we can prove or disprove. massive amounts of documents and records were destroyed at the end of the war so at some point using our ability to see patterns and draw personal conclusions is necessary.

Fred Steeves wrote:I'm also having a tough time with "Paperclip" as well. Did all of those noble doctors and scientists from the defeated Reich, come over to help the bad guys not only understand their advanced technology so they could become even more powerful, but to help get the MK ULTRA type of mind fuck programs going as well? That doesn't make sense to me, wouldn't a number of them have committed suicide, rather than defile themselves, their professions, and their country in such a manner?

Operation Paperclip, yes that question has also plagued me. What really happen, did German scientists go willingly to the United States or were some coerced, bribed or even threatened? I would venture to say that it was a combination of all these means, again we can draw a conclusion through seeing how countries and people are brought into the fold of the controllers. Some are fooled by offers of money, research labs and "esteemed institutions" that offer them credibility, others are threatened or their family members killed, and some simply don’t have a choice if they want to survive. Current situations in the world from the killing of holistic doctors and researchers along with the murder of true investigative journalists allows us to see how it is done …

We are speaking of individuals who were scientists and mostly academics, as we now know these individuals can have a very narrow focus and often have compartmentalized knowledge so we can’t assume they were aware of the total agenda being played out. Indeed they were "the spoils of war" with their advanced knowledge including possible and highly prized off-world technologies. I would take a look at each individual, their writings and thesis before I would glop them all into the same basket. When I have time I will do some more research. How many doctorates within the dirty halls of academia are thus used today … promoting and indoctrinating masses of human consciousness with their titles and reputations? In my mind not much different than the men and women who were brought to the United States after WWII.

This is why I take issue with people irresponsibly using the word Nazi (which was a slur meaning backward farmer) as a label for what is occurring in the world today. For myself it is a cover word meant to delude and confuse. As currently used it drives consciousness to a set of perimeters that is difficult to break out of.

Fred Steeves wrote:There's more, but I think you get the point. If these have satisfactory explanations, perhaps the rest will begin falling into place as well.

Christine wrote: the “International Banking Cartel” had so thoroughly demolished Germany’s economy at the end of WWI that the only choice open was to initially accept the loans of money offered. This pattern is ongoing today, destroy a country in the name of Democracy then tie them to the debt system with a strangle hold on the resources of the country, including natural resources and human resources (labor).

I see where you're going with that, and yes we still see that pattern today, but I think the sudden influx in funds during the 1930's was a bit different. The Reich wasn't getting just enough money to stay on the ventilator, it was getting the type of funding that builds things like autobahns and a world class military.

Christine wrote: Secondarily it is important to remember that what we can call the sociopathic leaders don’t see in terms of good guys and bad guys, their view of the world is what can we get and how can we obtain our goals, ie: control and power. Assuming that after WWI “they” were gleeful that Germany was coming into the control fold.

Understood. So far as I know the controllers use the good and bad alike, same as the rain falls on both it matters not. Now the being "gleeful" thing of getting Germany into the control fold after WW 1 I don't quite get, and there is that shadowy, murky area again. I have to go back in time once more to the "Scramble For Africa" dating from the early 1880's up to the beginning of WW 1. Germany was fat and happy in that proverbial cigar smoke filled room right there with the other predators, so I'm failing to see how they were somehow different in that respect, and needed bringing into that fold at all.

My best guess so far is that Germany wanted in on the empire game as well, they figured it was their turn, but others thought otherwise. I'm seeing a stab in the back in there somewhere, where somebody wasn't quite as welcome at that table of greed as they thought they were.

Christine wrote: I personally wouldn’t make the assumption that Germany was used as an incubator for “American Eugenics” … and legal or not the eugenics programs were covertly being carried out, even within the US on certain segments of people such as the Blacks.

I probably didn't phrase that right. Yes, absolutely the U.S. had a thriving eugenics program starting in the 20's iirc, and it involved a lot more than just the blacks. Forced sterilization of poor or not smart enough people, that sort of thing. What I meant by "incubator" was that the U.S. could only go so far with it Constitutionally. It could only get so big, so fast, so they invested heavily in the blossoming Reich where it could advance less hindered. I hope that makes more sense

Christine wrote: As far as Josef Mengele goes many alternate testimonies have surfaced as to whether he was indeed "The Angel of Death". There is the point to be made too that while he may have engaged in experiments that our current mind revolts at he wasn’t alone and I would guess that there were far worse than him practicing some really horrid experiments … again the fall guy? Divert the world’s attention to one man and continue to experiment with impunity and unseen.

Sure, he very like WAS a fall guy, that sounds about right! In the same vein and invoking "as above so below", I can see the painting of Hitler's Reich as the source of all evil, as the same sort of diversion.

Christine wrote: We are speaking of individuals who were scientists and mostly academics, as we now know these individuals can have a very narrow focus and often have compartmentalized knowledge so we can’t assume they were aware of the total agenda being played out. Indeed they were "the spoils of war" with their advanced knowledge including possible and highly prized off-world technologies. I would take a look at each individual, their writings and thesis before I would glop them all into the same basket. When I have time I will do some more research. How many doctorates within the dirty halls of academia are thus used today … promoting and indoctrinating masses of human consciousness with their titles and reputations? In my mind not much different than the men and women who were brought to the United States after WWII.

You make some very good points there. The only one I've taken any real time to research is "Rocket Man" Wernher von Braun, whom together with American Jack Parsons (and THAT'S a whole other story!) were the two fathers of America's space program. Even though he was a ranking SS officer, from everything I've seen so far he was by no means a loyal military man, or maybe not even a true patriot for that matter.

It looks to me like Hitler's government offered him the means to follow his passions, his dreams since early childhood. It was a vehicle for him, and I think he likely saw the U.S. government in the same light as he was surrendering in 1945. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if many of the others, in their own given fields, saw things in much the same light.

An interesting side note on von Braun: It looks as if he (and those like him) was used as well, and as soon as they were done sucking him dry of his knowledge base and genius he was cast adrift. His dreams never fully realized, or not publicly anyway...

Good questions bring about further investigation.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkenkfRTn4c[/youtube]

"Germany issued debt-free and interest-free money from 1935 on, which accounts for Germany's startling rise from the depression to a world power in five years. The German government financed its entire operations from 1935 to 1945 without gold, and without debt. It took the entire Capitalist and Communist world to destroy the German revolution, and bring Europe back under the heel of the Bankers." -

Quote taken from Sheldon Emry's 1984 Book: 'Billions for the Bankers, Debts for the People'

~~~

Harking back to Otto von Bismark and the way the world power brokers used doctrines such as Manifest Destiny to create a "divine right" to conquer and vanquish native populations is not exactly the subject of this thread. However I think I see why you are bringing this up. To understand an epoch it is necessary to see through the eyes of those who lived during this time. In other words; to be a world player leaders of nations were compelled toward empire building by seeking vast deposits of natural resources by conquest. Europe has been hacked up into so many pieces and redistributed to the "players" that it isn't surprising for me to see how this was instituted. Those in power haven't stopped playing this idiocy today.

"Domestically, Bismarck extended the powers of the imperial government, adopted laissez-faire economic policies, fought the political power of the Roman Catholic church in the Kulturkampf, and pioneered social welfare measures."

I note this quote because it is once again important to comprehend the triad of the Crown Corporation and woe to any nation that attempts to break free from the stranglehold of bankers, false religious doctrines, and the corporate war machine. The "somebody" not happy with Bismarck was the Catholic church.

Sadly until this day we are under the rule of those who seek domination. It is a very complex twisted history and any Nation that seeks to protect its borders, its people or its right to a way of life will of necessity have to play on the political chessboard. How to unravel this and restore harmony is the question before us all.

Christine wrote: Harking back to Otto von Bismark and the way the world power brokers used doctrines such as Manifest Destiny to create a "divine right" to conquer and vanquish native populations is not exactly the subject of this thread. However I think I see why you are bringing this up. To understand an epoch it is necessary to see through the eyes of those who lived during this time. In other words; to be a world player leaders of nations were compelled toward empire building by seeking vast deposits of natural resources by conquest. Europe has been hacked up into so many pieces and redistributed to the "players" that it isn't surprising for me to see how this was instituted.

Right. Not only to see it through their eyes, but in what led to any given point in history in the first place. I can't look at history in little snap shots, like say from 1933-1945. The Treaty of Versailles was not the subject of this thread either, but if we leave what happened there out of the equation, then we miss a big chunk of why 1933-1945 happened in the first place.

Christine wrote: Those in power haven't stopped playing this idiocy today.

Exactly, it's the same old song and dance ain't it? Same as it always was, same as it always will be.

Christine wrote: I note this quote because it is once again important to comprehend the triad of the Crown Corporation and woe to any nation that attempts to break free from the stranglehold of bankers, false religious doctrines, and the corporate war machine. The "somebody" not happy with Bismarck was the Catholic church.

Hmmmmm I don't know, that's debatable.

Christine wrote: Sadly until this day we are under the rule of those who seek domination. It is a very complex twisted history and any Nation that seeks to protect its borders, its people or its right to a way of life will of necessity have to play on the political chessboard. How to unravel this and restore harmony is the question before us all.

Exactly, look no further than what happened to the U.S. even during it's birth, and not long after it's beginnings. Like you mentioned above, "Manifest Destiny". For a nation to thrive on the world's stage it has to play "The Game", and "The Game" IMO is the vehicle of the parasite. Getting back to AH. Somehow he wound up with the short end of the stick, but I can't see he was immune to any of that.

Found this video today from Global Research which talks about WWII and the business dynamics between Hilter and USA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 6UgHmeiXyo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just listened to this dissertation by Jacques R. Pauwels whom I have never heard of before. His bio shows he is from academia which is clearly relayed while he is talking in a typically authoritarian voice.

I will quote a line from one of the comments: "An excellent example of the combination of confused thinking and established facts."

The prewar $$ connection between Adolf Hitler and the United States is well established, though I think many people have missed that fact so immediately jump to the conclusion that the "Nazis" run the US via the Bush dynasty and the militarized industrial complex. What I see in his conclusion is a twisting of facts and the leaving out of great swaths of information most importantly the involvement of the International banking cartel and the ongoing Jewish question, no mention of Israel is made. He fails completely to mention that Hitler withdrew Germany from the grips of the international money system ...

His summation that Germany was preparing for war to conquer Europe can be countered by the fourteen known attempts Hitler made to establish peace with Great Britain and by leaving Churchill out of his analysis shows his views to be extremely lopsided.

One thing that is made abundantly clear is that war is good for business, actually necessary to keep any fake economy alive. But who benefits and who indeed benefited from WWI and II?

Sandy Clark wrote:Found this video today from Global Research which talks about WWII and the business dynamics between Hilter and USA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 6UgHmeiXyo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be fair to Jacque R. Pauwels I think his focus was business activities between the US and Hitler, thus leaving out swaths of info including defining whether Hitler was a good guy or not.

Most reports coming from Global Research originate from highly credentialed academics who for sure speak with authority, not unlike yourself Christine with your vast knowledge of WWII dynamics.

Personally I would not put all my eggs in one basket due to the vast amount of deceit reported about WARS overall. The big picture doesn't boil down to individuals such as Churchill, Roosevelt or Hitler and IMO boils down to occulted OLIGARCHS who pulled the strings of the aforementioned puppets/men.

Lets not forget that they all gave the orders to kill millions of people.