We are real...what we do and whom and what we love and how we are born and how we make a life...however long is real....and then we leave this existence. All of this at least for me may include ideas and happen stance with UNREALITY which will seem very real but will confuse and frustrate and make me sad because it is ultimately an illusion.

For instance
IMO death is not real.
Permanence is not real.
If I believe them real, then I will create in my life the meanings they hold.

For instance if I believe in death, I will imagine something about nonexistance, an END and that will make me so sad.
If I believe in the possibility of endings then I will make beginnings and then see them end. That will be frustrating.
If I believe in death, I may be believe in murder and that will frighten me.
It will make me angry that someone was a murderer.
It might make me violent to kill an enemy and vanquish the threat. IMO that will make me confused (because it will not kill the hate or destroy the cause of enmity).
I don't think we have to understand everything before we use our minds as instruments toward knowing what IS real.

Ignorance is painful. IF I believe that something and anything on the physical realm is permanent I will be continually disappointed and also a bit impotent. I will have been holding on to a circumstance where I might have been attending to my real life.

Many wise sages suggest we keep death as an ally.
I have wondered often about how DEATH is an ally?
Maybe death is really impermanence and we have just been confused?

If I believe that what I do and whom I love and what I value is real, I can still embrace impermanence.
I can still embrace a finite life in the form I know as me.

A concept I think is funny concerns threats to "me".
It makes no sense that anyone can really harm me.
It makes no sense that just because we have duality and polarity that I am impinged upon by forces that could REALLY be dangerous.
IMO people project their fear and make demons who haunt them.
Strong indicators form people who have expanded consciousness say we WANTED to experience the illusions and then remember.
It looks like we are self evolving beings of awareness.

I think, Because there is so much compounding evidence that when I leave this realm, I take "myself" with me.
There is also so much evidence that people choose when they leave the planet.
There is moreover evidence that when we cross the threshold out of material, we have clear knowledge of everything we missed of truth.

In the mean time it is possible to take everything much less seriously. I was a child who was abused but now I am an adult person and I am feeling no abuse at all now. This is because IMO I was lucky to hear many words of truth from those who know, so I could recall how ephemeral this is and therefore very malleable. The malleability lets me choose to use everything that I think was "whatever" I think it was FOR MY BEST and happiest expression now. That is real.

Eelco wrote: Our little sidetrack here has already shown that that question. Is open to so much interpretation that It's meaningless for any real purpose.

LostNFound wrote:What is Real? is the question, What is right or what is wrong are just concepts created by a perceived notion of a man or woman. As Eelco stated the very notion of what is right causes the the notion that something is wrong and this leads into the circular idea of a cat chasing its own tail.

So asking "what is right?" is "meaningless for any real purpose" and is like "a cat chasing its own tail". I beg to differ, and I will explain why.

"What is real?" is a less important question than "what is useful?" Both are less important than "What is right?" For example, we know murder is real. No one disagrees, so the question ("Is it real?") is moot. Is murder useful? Sociopaths often find it so, and sometimes non-sociopaths do too (as in capital punishment). But is murder right? There appears to be consensus that it is not right, but then we have capital punishment, abortion, assassinations, false-flags (9/11), regional conflicts, and global wars. In other words, people murder quite often while claiming murder is wrong. Humans exhibit very little hypocrisy when it comes to what is real or what is useful, but when it comes to what is right, our hypocrisy is glaring. So our problem is not determining what is real, or what is useful. It is determining what is right.

Wow! Maggie, so the existentialist kicks back to ponder forever more. So IMO (as this is used) What is real is Me, what I imagine, what I think. Morality which is a concept that is good within its meaning may be inherent within my/our conscious. Love of life, to which there is no death but only that concept we are given in this material realm is therefore eternal.

REAL IS then therefore. Does it all rest within my conscious? It falls on me to accept and so therefore I choose a belief, to accept my reality, I choose to love, to do no harm, to smile, to enjoy, to feel pain, to feel joy, TO FEEL. Is this not the choice we may be given? Did we/I not make the choice to come here to experience all that is around my very existence? I make up all that is as I move forward, I choose what it will be and take my own responsibility for whatever it may be.

May or might it be that death is but a doorway back to the beginning or another plane. Could all of this be just a step along the way of learning. I have written about stepping into or out of time. So into time, REAL IS. out of time has not rested itself other than a fictional thought at the moment yet it could be REAL just not IS at the moment. I stand in this firmament of corporeal existence and it IS REAL at this moment. To push any further could border on loss. I look forward. I also look backwards and see the love that brought me to the present. So here I am and REAL IS.

Thank you dear lady Maggie
Steven

LostNFound wrote:I look forward. I also look backwards and see the love that brought me to the present. So here I am and REAL IS.

Thank You Steven!!!!!!!!!!!!

What can I say; but Fantastic!! Your words and thoughts are definite Tank Fillers>>>> Maggie and Steven <3

Chicodoodoo wrote:Humans exhibit very little hypocrisy when it comes to what is real or what is useful, but when it comes to what is right, our hypocrisy is glaring. So our problem is not determining what is real, or what is useful. It is determining what is right.

ok

What is Real? - a never ending journey of discovery. Since I took time away from keyboard and the signals that interrupt our organic programming I was only able to grok the messages that popped up on my phone from my Facebook feed ... enough to know that others felt, intuited and were attempting to put words to the indescribable sense that something switched off and something else switched on. The day of the eclipse I allowed an immersion of my spirit in the darkening I felt all around, maybe allowed isn't the correct way to word it, more as if I couldn't help but perceive the splitting or splicing of consciousness.

From my perspective this "transition" from one overlay to a new one started weeks before the eclipse, I recall walking with Cristian at sunset on several occasions before we left Mexico for Romania. We would be sitting on our rock, a ledge several hundred feet above a rocky canyon it was then that I was well aware that the sky looked surreal as if it was a frozen frame in a movie, everything stopped and the light felt unreal. I noted this and even spoke it without knowing exactly what I was picking up.

What is difficult about putting words to this is that we lose the depth of the perceptions and honestly can't transcribe it to anyone who is not so attuned to the subtle bands of perception. What we can do by voicing our perceptions is perhaps affirm others that the most quiet worlds are the real ones, the silent realms of true wonder are were we eternally inhabit and come from.

Going to release a deep sigh here, one of those long drawn out ones that say more than I can type.

This is an interview with Shane and Cara St. Louis. Shane once again exemplifies a voice of sane truth.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zv3Q5gb9yU[/youtube]
Stand In the Place that You Took! The American Eclipse

[youtube]https://youtu.be/t_W7Jf-FM9Y[/youtube]

With Love

Love Jim Carrey and what a great connection both Shane and Cara have and present>>thank you

As usual, interesting conversation with Shane. Hopefully this is not touching on any sacred cows, but I found it pertinent to "What Is Real" in ways other than discussion of AI and simulations. Is the information contained within true, or for the sake of this thread, real? The answer is subjective of course. For some the conclusion is a resounding hell yes, some undecided, and yet others a resounding hell no.

I thought it quite appropriate with the Jim Carry follow up, in that he has decided icons are meaningless. It can be argued whether icons actually exist or not, other than in the eye of the beholder, but the more important question for Jim seems to have been: "Do they have meaning?" Very similar to the follow up question I posited a ways back here: "Is it useful?" Whether real or not, Jim Carry has found icons to be useless.

And what about the information contained in the Shane interview? Perhaps the more important question than "is it real"/is it accurate, would be "is it useful"/"is it meaningful?" We can draw important meaning from pure fiction, yet not give a hoot about something very real. Or vice versa.

This is how I see things anyway, of course mileage may vary