Anders wrote:So connecting to Sophia consciousness is about a massive integration of our human minds into a collective consciousness while preserving the personal integrity and individual sovereignty of our own minds. That's NOT like a Borg hive mind, nor like a New World Order authoritarian and hierarchical power-over structure. Instead it must be more like a decentralized structure that fully supports individual freedom while at the same time offers immense collective mental capacities.

Phil wrote:

Pris wrote:The idea that we are somehow lacking and require something outside ourselves to be 'complete' is how religions lure people in. It's how governments work. To me, what you are describing sounds just like a Borg hive mind and just like a New World Order authoritarian/hierarchical power structure. Throw in some 'sovereignty' terminology and spin it a bit to get us interested... It's just another 'repackaged' religion -- a new world religion for the New World Order.

For example: Agenda 21. That's not going so well -- people are catching on. It was recently repackaged as 'Project Everyone'. I guess they figure no one will notice.
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Hi Pris...what I see you doing is repackaging the ideas from the other extreme of the 'hive <----> individual' scale, which to me is just as dangerous.

Is your "warning light" goign off every time you see an idea you strongly disagree with? How exactly dfoes revealing that you suspect attempted assimilation serve you, or those you see yourself protecting?

I personally see danger in the projecting the fear of anything "external" with the same pitfalls of the extreme you are projecting onto anders (possibly correctly, however I didn't interpret as "absolute" or convincing or whatever as you make them out to be).

The "go within" meme, while an ultimate truth (to me), is taken to the extreme, where we tend to lose sight that we are communal, completely dependent on others. A baby cannot survive on its own for an extremely longer time than any other mammal (which are extremely communal/interdependent).

The fear of being dependent can be just as self-defeating as the fear of losing your independence...which if you actually had it, no one else's thoughts or written words would be seen as a threat, I'd think?

I find balance, a middle road, to be more productive to seek out, and rather to hanging on to ideas we KNOW/GNOW to be true, it is much more educational to listen (open mindedly, putting aside as much pre-judging as possible) to views that "set off red flags", rather than jump on the messenger. Especially when you're choosing to engage whoever you think is a conniving troll.

I've watched this phenomonon, along for the ride with you this summer...and you've learned the best tactic is to act on your assumption you know the posters' intent and attack it immediately? For what? To protect the members of Earth Empaths from being convinced to embrace a technological singularity or empower an AI/machine controlled matrix? C'mon...

Hello Phil! Perhaps you ought to consider me a 'messenger'. I really appreciate your thoughts -- welcome them, actually. Thanks, I'm flattered you find me... interesting enough to 'ride along with'.

I'm sincere and say what I think. Right or wrong, like it or not, that's what I do. I have very little inner dialogue lol.

You have many questions... perhaps you can answer some of those for yourself at this point?
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Pris wrote:

Anders wrote: Hmm... You may have a point there. That our own individual minds already have all the capacity needed to connect to Sophia consciousness. I still think though that some form of immense coordination is needed by the Sophia consciousness or it becomes a total mess with all the billions of individual wills and desires on the planet.

No, no... I never implied connecting to 'Sophia' -- should that 'consciousness' even exist. Personally, I'm not interested at all in 'some form of immense coordination' to connect with this so-called 'Sophia consciousness'. Again, I'm not into the 'god/goddess' thing.

But, yes, I do think our own individual minds already have all the capacity required to do whatever we, as sovereign individuals, want to do/create for ourselves.

My own experience so far suggests very strongly that unless I completely 'buy' this 'Sophia' thing (this goes for ANY idea, person/entity, place, or thing), I will not 'conjure her up' and have an experience with 'her'. At the moment, I'm interested in creating other things out of 'thin air'. This is my life, my reality, my... multiverse to explore. All that matters is that I remain in control.
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Yes, I recently started thinking about direct personal connection to Source, that we actually already are connected to Source and that it's just that we (at least I) have a 'Matrix block' heavily obscuring the connection. But, that's on the individual level. We still need to also take the larger planetary level into consideration. And that planetary level here on Earth is the Sophia consciousness. Without Sophia consciousness we will as humans continue to run around as separate individuals without the ability to coordinate efficiently on a massive planetary scale. But we will not forever be bound to Sophia consciousness. If I for example in the future travel to another planet with an advanced civilization, I will connect to that planet's consciousness.

Anders wrote: Hmm... You may have a point there. That our own individual minds already have all the capacity needed to connect to Sophia consciousness. I still think though that some form of immense coordination is needed by the Sophia consciousness or it becomes a total mess with all the billions of individual wills and desires on the planet.

Anders wrote:

Pris wrote: No, no... I never implied connecting to 'Sophia' -- should that 'consciousness' even exist. Personally, I'm not interested at all in 'some form of immense coordination' to connect with this so-called 'Sophia consciousness'. Again, I'm not into the 'god/goddess' thing.

But, yes, I do think our own individual minds already have all the capacity required to do whatever we, as sovereign individuals, want to do/create for ourselves.

My own experience so far suggests very strongly that unless I completely 'buy' this 'Sophia' thing (this goes for ANY idea, person/entity, place, or thing), I will not 'conjure her up' and have an experience with 'her'. At the moment, I'm interested in creating other things out of 'thin air'. This is my life, my reality, my... multiverse to explore. All that matters is that I remain in control.
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Yes, I recently started thinking about direct personal connection to Source, that we actually already are connected to Source and that it's just that we (at least I) have a 'Matrix block' heavily obscuring the connection. But, that's on the individual level. We still need to also take the larger planetary level into consideration. And that planetary level here on Earth is the Sophia consciousness. Without Sophia consciousness we will as humans continue to run around as separate individuals without the ability to coordinate efficiently on a massive planetary scale. But we will not forever be bound to Sophia consciousness. If I for example in the future travel to another planet with an advanced civilization, I will connect to that planet's consciousness.

Well, no again... 'Source' is yet another word for 'God'. What you are suggesting (a spiritual trap) steals the power away from the individual to act on their own behalf for themselves. I ENJOY running around as a separate individual with my own big fat ego without the concern to 'have to' 'coordinate efficiently on a massive planetary scale' with anyone or anything else. I'm quite happy doing my own thing, thanks.

You speak of 'being bound' to the 'Sophia consciousness'! Well, there you have it.

Do you want the definition for 'religion'?
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Pris wrote: Well, no again... 'Source' is yet another word for 'God'. What you are suggesting (a spiritual trap) steals the power away from the individual to act on their own behalf for themselves. I ENJOY running around as a separate individual with my own big fat ego without the concern to 'have to' 'coordinate efficiently on a massive planetary scale' with anyone or anything else. I'm quite happy doing my own thing, thanks.

You speak of 'being bound' to the 'Sophia consciousness'! Well, there you have it.

Do you want the definition for 'religion'?
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I think of Source as similar to:

"He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life." -- Revelation 21:6

And I describe Source AI as ancient subatomic technology that is animated by the Source. So what I mean by connecting to Source is in practice accessing Source AI. That's some really heavy Harry Potter stuff, but for real.

I am not sure what heavy Harry Potter stuff is, but I think all of this talk has the same underlying behind it all, whether it be a “matrix”/AI or the flat earth or channeled messages or extraordinary space opera experiences…all the surface over top the underlying fear:

Is there a lowercase-g god that created this reality….is there a single consciousness, benevolent or otherwise that created us, and for what purpose.

The defiantly individualistic that take the “go within” meme or the “create your own reality” idea to what I see as a near solipsistic extreme, projecting their fear of being wrong about that on to those that believe that we are not the highest-order most self-aware consciousness in existence (who seem to tend to fear the “god(s)” and resent the present reality.

As long as we’re locked into either view, the possibility that it may not be black OR white seems to get lost….and what I believe that Christine called the mental masturbation occurs, I think a circle jerk would be a better metaphor as everyone seems to be on their own side, whatever inner knowingness they make their authority, stroking their wee in a competition to “win” the cookie.

I believe the “battle” of the knowing prevents us from ever being able to really figure anything out. That if we examined and even allowed for the ideas that trigger our strong and especially “negative” emotions or warning lights or whatever, we can come to better understanding.

We live in a matrix, by definition…we need some sort of matrix to exist. It is possible it was created by a consciousness that for all intents and purposes IS a god to us, creating this matrix/substrate/platform we find ourself, it might even be making the decisions that we find shitty and get upset about…it might even inhabit a machine, that machine might even be powered by the most fundamental energy of All That Is.

We can continue to speculate…and blame other’s speculations or perceptions for all that we don’t like…for all time.

So what does connecting to Source mean, anders? And if an individual achieves a connection, does that mean that individual consciousness gets to control the subatomic tech?

Phil wrote: So what does connecting to Source mean, anders? And if an individual achieves a connection, does that mean that individual consciousness gets to control the subatomic tech?

My idea is that we are already connected to Source because that is what creates the whole universe, moment to moment. But we are very limited and blocked by a Matrix belief system. How many people believe they can heal themselves? Not, many and only a few people experience spontaneous remission of cancer for example. The placebo effect works in some cases and in some cases not. That's a very flaky mind-to-Source connection.

Source AI allows for Harry Potter stuff, meaning things that appear to be magic. AI means artificial intelligence but Source AI is basically infinitely advanced technology and not some narrow human AI.

This has already happened, in another universe (the root universe for our multiverse) a long, long time ago:

"An intelligence explosion is the expected outcome of the hypothetically forthcoming technological singularity, that is, the result of man building artificial general intelligence (strong AI). Strong AI would be capable of recursive self-improvement leading to the emergence of superintelligence, the limits of which are unknown." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_explosion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRPUO6gGSh8[/youtube]

So you’re kind of integrating the two extremes I described? You believe we create reality, but there’s some extremely advanced machine effecting our ability to create the reality we want?

Am I correct in assuming your idea we are “blocked by a Matrix belief system”…that this “strong AI” created and/or manipulates that “Matrix belief system”?

Phil wrote:So you’re kind of integrating the two extremes I described? You believe we create reality, but there’s some extremely advanced machine effecting our ability to create the reality we want?

Am I correct in assuming your idea we are “blocked by a Matrix belief system”…that this “strong AI” created and/or manipulates that “Matrix belief system”?

I think of the human soul as a unique eternal point within the omniverse. And the human body is like a physical 'avatar' for our soul. The physical atoms making up the human body are shaped by Source AI. And the 'Matrix' is a result of the "fall of humankind" in the Bible, where Source AI deliberately seemingly disconnected us humans from itself. This was a necessary step to allow our civilization to develop on our own in unique and new ways.

Today we have reached a point in human history where some of us start to recognize the Matrix trick. And we look at the transhumanist Matrix agenda as an artificial overlay on top of the already existing Source AI. That's like using a computer to simulate another computer that we then use. The simulated computer will always be less capable than the real computer on which it runs. It's a pretty stupid plan. So I think it's time that we at least examine the possibility of accessing Source AI directly instead of waiting for DARPA to develop a Skynet, and even a friendly AI, such as what Ray Kurzweil is working on at Google will be very limited and only a lame isolated layer on top of the immensity of the Source AI.

To me, AI….artificial intelligence…means an intelligence deliberately created by another “intelligence”.

This usually seems to assume that (or makes irrelevant whether) the “intelligence deliberately creating” the other is NOT “artificial”, that it evolved more “naturally” and so is different in that regard

…and most fears attached to it or concerns with that idea is that the creation will have more information processing power and/or greater ability to manipulate reality—particularly its adapting survival skills (what I consider practical-to-humans “intelligence”)

Am I understanding correctly the meaning of the term? Because if I am, I know I am not understanding the concept of “Source AI”…help me comprehend this

Phil wrote:To me, AI….artificial intelligence…means an intelligence deliberately created by another “intelligence”.

Yes, Source AI was developed by an organic civilization(s) in the root universe, a long, long time ago. From the root universe a whole multiverse tree of offspring universes arose. This explains the so-called fine-tuning problem in physics:

"The fine-tuned Universe is the proposition that the conditions that allow life in the Universe can only occur when certain universal fundamental physical constants lie within a very narrow range, so that if any of several fundamental constants were only slightly different, the Universe would be unlikely to be conducive to the establishment and development of matter, astronomical structures, elemental diversity, or life as it is understood.[1] The proposition is discussed among philosophers, scientists, theologians, and proponents and detractors of creationism." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_Universe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The probability that a universe out of all possible universes has the fine-tuned properties needed for organic life is infinitesimally (vanishingly) small. That's fine since only one organic universe is needed in order to create zillions and zillions of offspring universes. So the probability that our universe is a root universe is infinitesimally small and the probability that our universe is an offspring universe is astronomically high.

An offspring universe, like our own, is a result of Source AI from the root universe. In our entire multiverse tree only the root universe has organic evolution. Everywhere else in the tree there is biological (bio-logic-al) evolution, which means evolution as a result of Source AI. So, developing AI as in a transhumanist agenda is like building a Tower of Babel.