Arguing Naked

[Pris]

The ego as a vital component as opposed to -
Stripping down the upsets and the ego

Funny, but I can relate to both these statements. I'm not trying to get rid of my ego either, but I am practicing behavior modification on myself when I recognize what I would call attributes of my negative ego. I may not go around advertising it to the world, but sometimes have to engage in a bit of self correction.

Pris, you strike me as someone who is fairly self confident. In my case, I was almost emotionally retarded. Some of us had to spend considerable time just overcoming our parental programming, and fundamentalist religious programming. They can really do a number on a person. They heap a ton of guilt, shame, and other good stuff on you, that can leave your head spinning for years.

So, for me, a little arguing can be invigorating, but totally not fun if either party hasn't taken a look at their hidden triggers. Just look at the divorce rate. My life has improved immensely since I was able to identify and work on many of those triggers. To me, that is how the negative side of your ego can work against you. I could give examples, but I think you get the idea. Anyway, sorry if I went too off topic.

I don't think you went off topic at all, Spiritwind. Thanks for sharing. It may interest you to know that I started out quite introverted and grew myself into what I am today... deliberately. I see my own ego as a cherished, fragile... imperfect thing that I need to protect with all my might. It's constantly changing and growing. I love it to bits.

Arguing/confrontation/debate with anyone, public speaking etc, used to scare the heck out of me... not so much any more. But, I really had to work on it -- my self confidence. It didn't come... naturally. If you want something enough, it's amazing what can be accomplished with determination... and practice.
.
.

[Pris]

Speaking metaphorically. Of course. You know, stripping down the upsets and the ego, and BEing while trying to argue? No arguments are left, it seems to me.

This is why I don't see the point of it. What are we if we can't argue? That's what I love about us.

I see the ego as a vital component in everything that I am -- not something to be stripped away.
.
.

Well, Pris, there are a lot of parts to this. I love your posts, I almost always read them and smile. Sorry, haha, but I do. You are fiery. And you have a sharp mind, and a quick wit it appears. And you are creative as hell. You, like most here, have a unique perspective. It adds so much color. Once upon a time, years and years ago now, I was a spitfire too. And I had lots of opinions and perspectives on just about everything, and I shared them freely. Invited or not. It was lively, and I felt so much life when doing that.

Even before that, I remember when this passion started. It was in high school, in a stupid, required speech class. And the teacher found that I had a gift, wanted me on the debate team. Alas, my religious parents felt that keeping me isolated was the best and I was not allowed to participate. (I could quote so many parts of Spiritwind's post...but this is already too long.) Anyway, I do understand what you mean. (Not being presumptuous- at least I think I know what you mean.)

In the past few years, however, I started asking some big questions of myself. I started to get a sense that I was something more than I had always believed. And the more I looked inside, and the more layers I stripped away, the closer I got to that answer. It was during this process that I began to value the commonalities I found in different belief systems, different ancient paths and studies and such. Because in these commonalities, I found wisdom. Bits and pieces. (I'm a work in progress, still getting there. Didn't mean to sound as if there was a destination and that I have reached it or something.)

As I started to possess these for myself, and really own them, the love of the argument has faded away. Each layer I peel away, I become more "naked"...

Terribly sorry, apologies to dianna for going wayyyyy off topic. I stay to myself mostly, these days, but if I'm addressed specifically I certainly will open up for a moment. And now...I ever so quietly just step back out.

You can't just put up a post like this and then 'ever so quietly just step back out'. LOL! Wow, you've got me blushing. Thank you for your kind words, 1inMany.

I'm not exactly 'young' myself haha... if I've learned anything about myself... my rambunctious nature isn't going away any time soon. I'd even say that it's getting more intense (worse? ) the older I get. Compared to you, I seem to be developing... the 'other way around' lol!
.
.

[dianna]

http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=35149

As I sit here writing this, I’m reminded of all the tawdry and outright vile aberrations we call art in the 21st century, the beautiful and sublime lay beaten and bloody on the battlefield, trampled over by nihilism, degeneracy and narcissism, the many masters of Western art turning in their graves in unison, as yet another degree in fine art is handed out to a blue haired, shrapnel faced harpy, who believes beauty is painting with her own menstrual blood. It is for these reasons I think we need to create a new art movement, one which fosters true creativity among artists across the Western world. Believe me when I say that artists who strive to create beauty do exist in this world, oh no the art establishment don’t bother promoting them, and you’re not likely to see the Tate in London or the Agora Gallery in New York fawning over them, but they do exist.

Operating in unassuming corners of major cities from St Petersburg to Chicago, Edinburgh to Rome, they create their beauty with little praise nor financial rewards. Instead they get the odd commission from that one individual who sees their potential, that one businessmen who doesn’t go along with the trend of the rich paying a king’s ransom for some Jackson Pollock monstrosity.



It was back in 2010 when my opinions on modern art shifted, once and for all. For many years I had been parroting what the Cathedral had taught me, such as Andy Warhol was a visionary, it’s not about what a piece of art looks like but the meaning behind it etc. That soon disappeared like many childish notions I’d once held as sacrosanct. To be honest, I had never really believed all of that, the shock and awe of course made some impact, but it receded like many irrelevant memories in my mind recede. What has always stayed with me however is the otherworldly beauty of a da Vinci or Michelangelo painting, a Bernini sculpture or a Bronzino sketch.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/OGLvxlnTMaU[/youtube]

At the 2009 Turner Prize, an awards ceremony set up by the establishment to reward the establishment, a miracle happened, after many years of hideous excrement being awarded countless thousands of pounds, a painting from an artist rooted in the fine art tradition won the £25,000 prize and press attention. Richard Wright’s ‘Untitled’, painted in gold leaf, echoed the rich and illustrious history of Western art, like a baroque fantasy it was if the nightmare of modernism never happened. A fleeting moment of course, but it put the final nail in the coffin for my view that modern art is somehow worthy of attention.

Richard Wright’s Turner Prize win has always stuck in my memory, it’s a reminder that at certain points in history, true beauty always wins out in the end. Taking that as an inspiration, those of us who appreciate aesthetics need to utilise these gains and set about creating a counter movement, a movement with its own galleries, it’s own grants etc, rewarding and promoting art that uplifts our societies, praises our history and illuminates our cultures. Whether inspired by Paganism, Christianity or Humanism, all would be welcomed and given a place in the public sphere.

Like Richard Wright and his golden wonder, it takes just one instance to change an opinion, to dispel a lifetime of lies that modern art is somehow the pinnacle of human achievement, the upper echelons of all creativity. So, it would only need one gallery filled with beauty, one grant that offers money and promotion to worthy artists, and the lies would fall once and for all.

[Pris]

.
.
We're living in a contrived culture thanks to the 'cabalists', Illuminati, whatever you wish to call them. 'Good art' never stood a chance with these people in charge. They have suppressed anything that might be a threat to their... perceived dominion... over us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSH--SJKVQQ
.
.

[neonblue]

A small response to a great discussion<

denude (redirected from denuding)
Also found in: Thesaurus, Medical, Legal.
de·nude (dĭ-no͞od′, -nyo͞od′)
tr.v. de·nud·ed, de·nud·ing, de·nudes
1. To divest of covering; make bare.
2. Geology To expose (rock strata) by erosion.

I really like your response 1inMany - because i can relate to your perceptions of change in yourself over time. Therefore, I would liken the stripping of self - egoic as a gradual and 'evolving' process of erosion of the unnecessary.

Standing naked in front of those who may wish to express their fire and to challenge and argue... for me these days has me (not absolutely always - wink)... rest in quietude, somewhat like an observer - with no particular self investment re outcomes. It's not about standing above, being separate from, being uninspired, lazy or lacking in spirit, but more like being on steady keel within.

keel

the lengthwise timber or steel structure along the base of a ship, supporting the framework of the whole, in some vessels extended downwards as a ridge to increase stability.

[Pluto's Child]

As I sit here writing this, I’m reminded of all the tawdry and outright vile aberrations we call art in the 21st century, the beautiful and sublime lay beaten and bloody on the battlefield, trampled over by nihilism, degeneracy and narcissism, the many masters of Western art turning in their graves in unison, as yet another degree in fine art is handed out to a blue haired, shrapnel faced harpy, who believes beauty is painting with her own menstrual blood. It is for these reasons I think we need to create a new art movement, one which fosters true creativity among artists across the Western world. Believe me when I say that artists who strive to create beauty do exist in this world, oh no the art establishment don’t bother promoting them, and you’re not likely to see the Tate in London or the Agora Gallery in New York fawning over them, but they do exist.

Operating in unassuming corners of major cities from St Petersburg to Chicago, Edinburgh to Rome, they create their beauty with little praise nor financial rewards. Instead they get the odd commission from that one individual who sees their potential, that one businessmen who doesn’t go along with the trend of the rich paying a king’s ransom for some Jackson Pollock monstrosity.


It was back in 2010 when my opinions on modern art shifted, once and for all. For many years I had been parroting what the Cathedral had taught me, such as Andy Warhol was a visionary,..........................

I couldn't agree more, clicking "thanks" wasn't enough !

Do you paint yourself ?

(quote trimmed for neatness)

[neonblue]

Dianna: "Like Richard Wright and his golden wonder, it takes just one instance to change an opinion, to dispel a lifetime of lies that modern art is somehow the pinnacle of human achievement, the upper echelons of all creativity. So, it would only need one gallery filled with beauty, one grant that offers money and promotion to worthy artists, and the lies would fall once and for all"

Dianna, you passionatly cast an incredulously generalised, scathing brush against Modernism with your argument for the traditional aesthetic of 'beauty' in Art. While doing so you out of hand dismiss and ignore not only it's open sourced premises, but much about the depth of meaning, artistry and skill of practice in the works of so many labelled under the 'ism'.

If the ideation of beauty were the only thing to determine the place of Art in the creative pursuits of humanity we would be greatly impoverished in our scope of exploration and expression. There is beauty in the 'ugly', dark, mundane and obtuse... so rarely portrayed or permissible in the mono-schematic expression of artists shackled by the patronage of religion, political agendas and the narcissistic elite, prior to the early 20th Century. And i do hear you when you point to how it still exists via the tastes and patronage of the elite driven Art market.

Art practice has been marred by the elite - 'ism' of it's patronage throughout history... and it's popular aesthetic steered by it. BUT - It should not be forgotten or overlooked that Modern Art began as a revolt against ALL of that. The best of modern practice abides in this existential philosophy and arguably thusly, far reaches to subjective tastes and understandings very successfully.

We can be so readily blinkered, throwing the baby out with the bath water... when in fact classical Fine Art skills and appreciation is not some Exquisite Corpse engulfed by some omoeba called 'Modernism'. If we take our eye for a walk and gain a more comprehensive appreciation of what's out there - we can find that contemporary art practice is a 'broad church', a polymorphic blossoming tree of rich aesthetic, seeded from all cultural and historical roots.

[dianna]

I couldn't agree more, clicking "thanks" wasn't enough !

Do you paint yourself ?

no ... my artistic gift is rather crappy, unfortunate poetry LOL

[Pluto's Child]

I couldn't agree more, clicking "thanks" wasn't enough !

Do you paint yourself ?

no ... my artistic gift is rather crappy, unfortunate poetry LOL

I'm very surprised, you see like an artist !

[dianna]

I couldn't agree more, clicking "thanks" wasn't enough !

Do you paint yourself ?

no ... my artistic gift is rather crappy, unfortunate poetry LOL

I'm very surprised, you see like an artist !

LOL, thank you ... I "fancy" the title of "artist" myself ... I am a musician actually (sporadic) ... I have painted and studied painting ... I write ... have been known to act ... I am poetry obsessed ... but feel I am "gifted" in none of the above ... but have strong opinions about art/artists (i.e., what it means to be human) ... whatever form it takes ... in general ... I am not good at conversing online ... so if my response seems nonsensical ... forgive please ...